Transformational Trauma and Healing: Accessibility to Mental Health

This was a fantastic conversation with Erin Vandermore, licensed therapist and coach. We talked about the integration of the two, as well as accessibility and the stigma of getting help for mental health challenges. Don't miss this conversation.

Find Erin at Age of Uncertainty Coaching.

Some free resources from Erin:

A grounding and calming techniques course through Teachable (https://ageofuncertaintycoaching.com/free-grounding-course/)
Journal prompts available for purchase on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/stores/Erin-Vandermore/author/B0C1XGBCC8?ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true).

The first phase of Erin's App AOU Coaching is also now available.

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Transcript

9:07 - Carrie Rickert Welcome in. I am so happy that you're here today.

9:27 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Thank you. I'm excited to be here too.

9:30 - Carrie Rickert So we're going to just kind of jump right in because I, you know, as I was reading your bio, I think it is so interesting that you are a licensed clinical therapist and also a life coach. So talk to us a little bit about how those things work together, because I think it is common perception that it's either or. You know, that like you either go to therapy or you have a life coach. You don't like combine the two. So, so talk to us about that.

10:07 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Well, I don't see why not. I hate one extreme or the other that never seems to work well for people. And everybody needs to figure out what different puzzle pieces they need to fit together. And sometimes it's more of the tradition of therapy where, you know, you have a medical diagnosis, we're going through your insurance. You need someone with years and years of background within say an expertise of trauma. Right. You wouldn't necessarily seek out a life coach if we're thinking about complex trauma.

10:41 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Life coaching though, it helps me to be able to use those skills of working on the here and now, helping the person concentrate on the future, future goals, things like that, that I don't always get to do in typical therapy because we're so much in the nitty gritty of the past. And so it helps me to be in both worlds in my mind.

11:05 - Carrie Rickert Got it. Okay, so that makes sense to me. You know, because I'm thinking about all the different therapists that I have been to over time. And, you know, you're right. Typically, that is let's talk about the past. Let's talk about how we worked through things there. Maybe a little bit. 

12:03 - Carrie Rickert So it makes sense to me what you're saying, because as a therapy, I have gone through my past and maybe done a little bit of application in like, okay, now that I understand this about my past, what am I gonna, what changes am I gonna make moving forward? But to have, coaching that seems significantly more concrete, right?

12:48 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It can be, right? Now there are some, there's different types of therapy out there, so don't get me wrong. There's some areas where it absolutely overlaps, right? This is my view though. My view is that as a mental health therapist, I'm trying to get you to a place where you feel better and you feel good. And now you're going to take over and not check in with me anymore. Right?

13:12 - Carrie Rickert Right.

13:13 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Where a coach can now go, oh, okay, so you worked on all this gunk from the past. Do you see why you self-sabotage these patterns? You have a better idea. You have some coping skills and things. Okay, let's just work on the here and now. What are these skills? What can we do? How do we move forward, right? And a lot of us therapists don't get to work in that happy area of how are we going to keep moving forward?

13:38 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching How are we going to maintain? Because you've spent so much time in the yuckiness with me, viewing me in that lens, it just doesn't always fit.

13:49 - Carrie Rickert Okay. So if you think about it from a business aspect in that you're basically as a therapist, trying to work yourself out of a job.

14:02 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yes, I am. Absolutely. It's actually one of the first things I always ask people when they see me. I always ask every first session, what is it that needs to be different or better or needs to lessen so you fire me? Because that's what I'm working towards.

14:19 - Carrie Rickert Okay.

14:19 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I don't want to be in here forever.

14:23 - Carrie Rickert With the coach though,

14:26 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching That's a different mindset completely.

14:28 - Carrie Rickert Totally different mindset because you can continuously change and grow and, you know, different, totally different aspect. Okay.

14:40 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Just like an athlete, you can always get stronger. You can always learn new skills. There is no pro athlete or gold medalists out there who does not have a coach who behind them constantly helping them to get the goals, keep on track, learn new things. Right.

14:59 - Carrie Rickert That makes sense. So Tell us about how, if somebody were to work with you,

15:10 - Carrie Rickert How do these two things work together in what you do?

15:16 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Well, first I would wanna see which they want, cause I have to be very clear. If you're seeing me because I'm a licensed therapist and I'm using your insurance, I am now giving you a medical diagnosis and that is going on your health record. I'm billing your insurance every single time under that diagnosis. And that's what you and I are in a contract now.

15:41 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Doing if you don't want a medical diagnosis, if you don't feel like you need to do some type of deep trauma work with me and you want to do. Then that's a separate role. I'm not using my license. I'm not billing your insurance and I'm not going to give you a diagnosis. So I make sure they're very separate. Now, if you want to see me for one and then later on come back and do something different, totally fine. But I have separate contracts, they're separate fields. And I make sure that whoever I'm working with understands the difference between a medical diagnosis, the insurance piece, all those little pieces so that we have a clear understanding of what to expect from each other.

16:33 - Carrie Rickert I'm sure just the legality of insurance and all of that.

16:37 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yeah, I like my license.

16:38 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I don't want it taken.

16:41 - Carrie Rickert I totally get that. So I would imagine that people, you know, get to a place where they feel stuck And they don't know which is appropriate, right? Like, is it appropriate to go into therapy to work on things or is it appropriate to hire a coach? How do you help your clients determine that?

17:12 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching That's a really good question. And if you would have asked me this before COVID, before I went into coaching and like, oh my God, you never see a coach. You always come to a therapist. We're trained. We're in debt to our eyeballs for this. This is what we do. What are you talking about? A coach doesn't even need a license. I put my ego aside and I recognized not everybody fits the typical therapy approach. Not everybody has insurance. Not everybody needs the medical diagnosis. It doesn't always fit them, right?

17:50 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching So the big difference in my mind is, is this impacting you where you would now qualify for a medical diagnosis? Is it that extreme? Where it's been going on for at least like six months, or was it a big traumatic event that just happened yesterday? Like your house is on fire or something. I'm looking at this and I'm like, this is going to absolutely impact your mental health. An insurance company would absolutely pay for you to see me.

18:26 - Carrie Rickert Okay.

18:27 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching And you have to ask questions because that can be different for everybody. Right. So how long has this been going on? What are the symptoms? What have you tried? Also, what is your view? If you hate therapy, I'm certainly not going to suggest to go to a therapist. I want you to get help. So go see a coach, right? The go see a coach who has certifications, has training, and has years of experience. Cause you can get a crappy therapist and you can get a crappy coach.

19:06 - Carrie Rickert And I think, I mean, you just brought something up that I think is really important is that it's okay to shop around.

19:14 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Oh, please. Yes. I tell people all the time, I'm originally from Chicago. I'm very direct. I mostly work with trauma for therapy. I am not going to be the calm, you know, chill therapist you would normally find in Asheville, North Carolina. I'm not everybody's cup of tea.

19:38 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching And so if I'm not a good fit, totally fine. Let me help you find a different therapist.

19:44 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching We refer to people all the time.

19:46 - Carrie Rickert Got it. Okay. Yeah. Cause I, I mean, I've certainly had experiences in the past where I'm like, wow, this is not the right fit for me. And when I was younger, I stayed with people who were the wrong fit because I thought it was me.

20:07 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Nope, it's never, it is totally never you.

20:10 - Carrie Rickert Okay.

20:11 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It's the therapist. And I am not always going to be a fit for everybody who comes through my door.

20:18 - Carrie Rickert Great, interesting.

20:19 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching And if something feels Go with that. Send them an email and just say, Hey, I don't think it's a good fit. Do you have any suggestions? Do you know of anybody? This is more of what I'm looking for.

20:34 - Carrie Rickert Okay.

20:35 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Good ethical therapist will be like, yeah, sure. No problem. Let me give you a list because it's not about us. It's about what's best for you.

20:45 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Same with coaches, any coach who pressures you to stay with them when you have said it's not, it's not a good coach for you. We're here to help you.

20:54 - Carrie Rickert Okay. And sometimes a lot of this is a, I mean, even if you have insurance, um, for the therapy parts and, um, obviously, um, insurance doesn't help with the coaching. Um, but A

21:12 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It doesn't because it's not. Medical, um, viewpoint.

21:15 - Carrie Rickert So, you know, we're talking about a, large financial investment. I mean, it can be for both things. I mean,

21:23 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Absolutely. They do.

21:24 - Carrie Rickert Copays add up. Right. And Um,

21:27 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching And Not every therapist takes insurance.

21:27 - Carrie Rickert Coaching. You know, I, I think it's a really good message to people for them to understand that if it doesn't feel right, find somebody else.

21:45 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yes, please.

21:46 - Carrie Rickert Don't go getting help. At all because you.

21:52 - Carrie Rickert Found the wrong fit. If you're putting time, energy, and money into something, it needs to be helpful for you, right?

22:01 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yes. Couldn't agree more. That is so very important. You This is your life and we don't know how long or short it's going to be. And I don't know about you, but I don't like wasting time and I don't want to waste a client's time. If I know I'm not a good fit, I generally can tell by the second or third. And I've been doing this 15 years now. So I just call it out. I'm like, I'm not feeling it's good. I feel you'd be hesitant or withdrawn or, you know, what's going on. Am I reading this correctly?

22:37 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Is there something that I said, is there an approach you don't like, or do we just need to find a different person? Right. And if you can't have that difficult conversation with me,

22:49 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Then we really can't get the nitty gritty stuff that we need to. Right.

22:56 - Carrie Rickert Cause you know, I mean, all of this is based on honesty and trust.

23:00 - Carrie Rickert And I mean, I think that's a huge point in both therapy and coaching, like what is behind that should be a trusting relationship. And if that trusting relationship isn't there,

23:16 - Carrie Rickert If you don't feel like you can share in an honest way with your therapist and or your coach, then it's not going to change anything.

23:29 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching No, it's not going to help you. It's just going to keep you frustrated. And it'll probably make you not seek help again, which is awful.

23:38 - Carrie Rickert Which is terrible. Yeah. So I think we hit on this a little bit with, you know, the expensive nature of, um, of therapy and coaching, um, and how, you know, some therapists don't take insurance even. I know a lot of psychiatrists don't.

24:05 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Blame them. No, an insurance company can come back two years to a therapist and say, Oh, we want your notes. Look at your notes and say, yeah, that doesn't sound right. You owe us money. And there is nothing I can do to protect myself except try and get a lawyer But I don't have money for a lawyer and they're a big insurance company with a whole bunch of money.

24:31 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It is risky taking insurance.

24:34 - Carrie Rickert Yeah, it absolutely. And I know most psychiatrists these days, at least it seems that way, don't take insurance for the same reasons.

24:44 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching They're tired of arguing. They're tired of spending hours arguing about money for something they've already done.

24:53 - Carrie Rickert Reimbursement rates are so low that it doesn't like Operating costs aren't even covered.

24:59 - Carrie Rickert Right, right. So, you know, but what that does, though, is makes it more expensive for patients. So this brings up the topic of accessible mental health care. If you have to pay out of pocket for your mental health care and or for coaching, which I mean, that is out of pocket, but if you have to pay out of pocket for.

25:34 - Carrie Rickert These things, that can be a huge financial burden. Can just add trauma to whatever you have already experienced, right? Because it's scary to be like, Oh my God, I need help, but I can't afford the help. Right?

25:53 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yes. Yeah. Well, there is now that free text number and hotline 988. So you can always text or call and then you can talk to a crisis therapist for free anytime. So it's kind of like 911, but for mental health. So that's an awesome resource now. Totally free.

26:15 - Carrie Rickert That is. That is a fantastic resource, but that's not ongoing.

26:21 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching No, it's not.

26:23 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It's not the constant care that one may need after a crisis.

26:31 - Carrie Rickert Talk to us a bit about accessible mental health care and why that's so important to you.

26:41 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Oh my God. Well, first of all, I personally don't think it is accessible because it's. It's,

26:47 - Carrie Rickert Not, Yes,

26:47 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It's not, it's,

26:49 - Carrie Rickert No.

26:49 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I'm a mental health therapist. And if I want to get a therapy appointment for my child or for myself, I have a big copay. I also have to try and find somebody who has an open spot, who takes my type of insurance. And do they have time during the day to fit me in? Because I don't know about you, but I have a life and I don't want to be working till eight o'clock at night. I would like to go home and have dinner with my family. So it's even difficult to find days and times available, let alone somebody who will take your insurance.

27:29 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching So we have a big issue and It has a lot of different areas that we're not talking about. We're not talking about the way it's framed. We're not making it a priority. We're treating it as if it's a small fraction of our population and it's not that big of a deal. So insurance companies can get away with paying very little to this. We are making it not a right. It's not a human right to get mental health or medical care. Right?

28:00 - Carrie Rickert Right. Right?

28:03 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It's so frustrating to me as a practitioner.

28:07 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It should be like the dentist. You go a couple times a year. You do a check in with your mental health therapist, just like a dentist. If you need something extra, you stay and you get whatever extra you need. I mean, we really need to normalize because if you normalize it enough, then there'll be enough pressure from the population to push the need to increase some of the rates. Because honestly, at the end of the day, it's these huge assets. Oh, sorry. I don't know if I can swear, but it.

28:39 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It's these huge insurance companies who have lobbies who go and lobby to Congress so that they can pay the least amount of money as possible. I mean, they have thousands of ways they pay just to find different ways not to pay their bills. There's a better system.

29:00 - Carrie Rickert There is, there is. And I think,

29:06 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Soap boxes sometimes.

29:08 - Carrie Rickert Appreciate that because this one is, this is a big deal for me. Um, I have a, a child who is on the autism spectrum and is bipolar. And so he regularly sees a therapist, his psychiatrist I pay for out of pocket. You know, there are things that I would like to be able to provide for him that I know are inaccessible for me. And I am fortunate. Like, I have the ability to pay for some of the things that he needs, right? And there are people out there who don't have the ability to pay for any of it.

30:02 - Carrie Rickert And also in a lot of communities, mental health and getting care for mental health is such a stigma because.

30:13 - Carrie Rickert We aren't normalizing it, right?

30:16 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching No, we're not.

30:18 - Carrie Rickert So, we act like it's a weakness to seek care when the

30:26 - Carrie Rickert Weakness really is to not seek care.

30:31 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It is one of the biggest lies that we as society believe that we don't deserve better. It can't get better. The only way if it would get better is if we all have to pay more. And so we just grin and bear and keep our heads down because we believe all the crap eating us. And that's not true whatsoever. It absolutely can get better. We can absolutely get better healthcare and mental health is part of healthcare. And there's no reason why we all should be settling for less.

31:08 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It's like when people used to force children to work and people would work.

31:13 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Seven days a week and there were weekends and they just thought, oh no, there comes a tipping point where we all have to push back. And say enough is enough.

31:35 - Carrie Rickert Get us to that tipping point?

31:38 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching That's such a good question because I really was hoping it was going to be after COVID when we saw everything with mental health and the need increase. I'm still personally burnt out from COVID and being a therapist during COVID and helping people transition. After COVID or whatever this period is. And I've had insurance companies lower my rate because we're not in COVID anymore. And therefore I should get paid less.

32:09 - Carrie Rickert Oh my goodness.

32:11 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching There's big insurance companies who have done that to therapists all over the US or have said that telehealth therapy doesn't cost as much and we're not going to pay you.

32:23 - Carrie Rickert Which telehealth is has been such a fantastic addition to mental health care.

32:32 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Wonderful, because it.

32:34 - Carrie Rickert Gives people access where they may not have previously had access. It's so I mean,

32:44 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching But it used to not be covered. If you want to tell a health, you would have to go through this huge process to get it approved insurance company. And they had the right to deny it. They have too much power. Yeah. These individuals need to start educating ourselves and fighting back and telling the people we vote for and our HR and our insurance companies that we want better.

33:11 - Carrie Rickert Right. Right,

33:13 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Because they're only doing what we put up with.

33:17 - Carrie Rickert So what are some steps that people can take? To. Put the bug in the ears of those in power. Is it writing to our congressman? Is it, and women, is it, you know, calling and complaining to insurance companies? What are some ways? It's. Calling. Okay.

33:46 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It's calling. It's. Being, it is being the squeaky wheel. Yeah. For me, it's pulling out that mom card that I'm going to be an angry mom and you're messing with my kiddo and calling and not calling once, but calling a couple times, once a month, at least getting a group of like, we all read books together, or we all have a play date of kids together. Well, we're all sitting there and let's all get on our phones and hold online and complain. Call the insurance companies and call the people and do it over and over again until you're the squeaky wheel.

34:28 - Carrie Rickert So just to play devil's advocate.

34:33 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yeah, I love playing devil's advocate.

34:36 - Carrie Rickert You know, I think so many people might go, yeah, but I'm just one person. What? How am I gonna get like, I can't. Fix this.

34:49 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching No, but you can choose to be okay with it and say nothing. So we all have that choice in life when we see injustice happening. And some of us have the ability to use our voice and our privilege more than others. And so those of us who have the privilege and the time to sit on a phone call and wait and complain are the ones who do have to step up.

35:18 - Carrie Rickert Right. Okay.

35:20 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Cause that's the only way we're going to change. And we're all on our phones. You can easily Google who your Congress person is. Create an email that you copy and paste and you send every single week. It won't take that long. Right.

35:38 - Carrie Rickert Well, and there's even some like AI bots and things that, that will basically do that for you.

35:46 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I had no idea. I'll have to look into that. That's cool.

35:51 - Carrie Rickert There's, oh gosh, of course it's like not coming to my brain,

35:55 - Carrie Rickert But there's,

35:58 - Carrie Rickert You know, I tend to be more liberal leaning. So there's, there's. Lot of,

36:02 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching A

36:05 - Carrie Rickert There is a lot of, I signed up for something where it will say, you know, gun violence, like write your senators about how this has to stop. And so you just like write one or two words and they come up with a whole letter for you and you send it and it's all done over the phone and you send it off.

36:33 - Carrie Rickert I don't remember ever seeing anything for mental health care though.

36:40 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching And we need to start putting it out there. The more of us who talk about it,

36:45 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching The more it'll happen. Right.

36:47 - Carrie Rickert And that's what, I mean, how lucky am I that I have this platform, right. To be able to bring these to people's attention, because I think personally that the inaccessibility of mental health care is trauma.

37:06 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Absolutely.

37:07 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I wouldn't.

37:07 - Carrie Rickert We're. Just.

37:07 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I. Couldn't agree more. Yes. We're making it worse. We're building trauma on top of trauma.

37:15 - Carrie Rickert Because if you can't find, and I've, I've said this about all kinds of trauma, how far few and far between the knowledge of the resources out there. Is.

37:32 - Carrie Rickert Right so like there are.

37:34 - Carrie Rickert Things out there that are already paid for that people don't know about.

37:42 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching They don't but you know that 988 crisis number they will have a list of resources as well so that's a really quick way you could send a text and say, what are all the free resources in my area? Can you connect me to whatever that is in my area? And they will absolutely help. So that's a quick way to get through some of that.

38:06 - Carrie Rickert That is awesome. See, I didn't know about that number. So-.

38:14 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It's new. I don't know if it's been a year even yet.

38:18 - Carrie Rickert Okay. Well,

38:19 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching So I'm telling everybody I know.

38:22 - Carrie Rickert Good. I'm glad because, you know, like that, how helpful would that be?

38:28 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yeah, the Biden administration came out with that and it's been wonderful.

38:37 - Carrie Rickert You know, I know that there are lots of resources available and there are lots of different things people can try. But very often people don't know what you asked for.

38:57 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching That's yeah, no.

38:58 - Carrie Rickert I mean, and that's part of accessibility. If people understood because they listen to conversations like this one, right? If people understood what the different possibilities were, they might be able to find something that fits for them.

39:16 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Absolutely. Which is why I would love it if we can normalize it like a dentist, because you might need more than it.

39:23 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching But if you know, to go see a dentist, they can at least give you a checkup and then point you in the right direction to the next person you need to see. And so mental health should be no different. Let's get you in the door,

39:37 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Talk about what's going on, and then we can figure out, okay, what's a better fit for you.

39:42 - Carrie Rickert Right, right. So yeah, I really like that approach that just twice a year. So not, you know, you have a physical with your primary care, right?

39:53 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I sent you with your mental health.

39:55 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching You do it for your teeth. You do it for your eyes.

39:58 - Carrie Rickert You get mammograms and colonoscopies.

40:01 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Mental health should be no different. It should be preventative. It should be normalized at least once, if not twice a year, go talk to your therapist.

40:11 - Carrie Rickert Yeah. And then. You know, if, if you need something more, Great,

40:15 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Thank. You. Stay?

40:16 - Carrie Rickert Let's. Find,

40:16 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yeah,

40:17 - Carrie Rickert Then let's find something, let's figure this out.

40:20 - Carrie Rickert But if you don't, then that's okay too. All right. We'll see you in six months and check in again.

40:26 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching You get to have a lovely conversation where you get to share all the good things going on in your life, how well you're coping, that things happened, but you're doing well. And doesn't that feel great to take a few minutes out of your day to recognize your progress?

40:41 - Carrie Rickert Absolutely. And, and my goodness, how happy would therapists be to listen to that?

40:48 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I would love that.

40:50 - Carrie Rickert So like, wellness checkups feel good Onee.

40:59 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Absolute. Yes, please.

41:05 - Carrie Rickert Therapists were on a regular, like, okay, every six months, I mean, it's, it's like,

41:12 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It would be. So. Normalized.

41:13 - Carrie Rickert You. Know, like you. Go to the dentist, you go to the dentist, you get your teeth cleaned. And then while you're sitting there, you schedule six months in advance. So like, there isn't the scheduling issue.

41:25 - Carrie Rickert There isn't the like,

41:28 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Trying to find someone.

41:30 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I mean, it would just, if we could normalize it, like the dentist or the eye doctor, oh my goodness, it would be so much better.

41:42 - Carrie Rickert So many levels. So many levels.

41:43 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yes, absolutely.

41:49 - Carrie Rickert What are some additional tools and resources that you can suggest for our listeners who are looking for mental health care, who are thinking about hiring a coach,

42:05 - Carrie Rickert Like what are some things that they can should be thinking about, should be asking, that kind of thing.

42:14 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Well, I think it would be good to kind of take a moment and journal. And when I say journal, that can be anything you want it to be. Like I have ADHD and I'm dyslexic,

42:23 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching So sitting and writing things when I can't even spell, that doesn't work for me, but I can talk.

42:29 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching So I can talk to my phone and do like a text to myself, whereas taking notes or I'm emailing myself, right? But I'm getting it all out. So why is it that I'm seeking out this help? What is it that I'm hoping is going to be different or better?

42:48 - Carrie Rickert Okay.

42:49 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Is it something from the past that I see myself repeating? That's going to be really in depth. Or is there something right now that I'm trying to fine tune for the future? Get some feedback on as I'm moving through the future. In my view, is it more past or future based? And then, am I looking for something specific? Is it depression, anxiety, career, romance, trauma? You need to ask yourself some questions to narrow the scope of what it is you're looking for. Now a good coach or therapist can always have this conversation with you, but we're overwhelmed and a lot of us have waiting lists.

43:37 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching So the more of the work you can do to figure out what you're looking for, the better it will be. Because I honestly have to turn people away right now, and I don't even have time for consultations.

43:49 - Carrie Rickert Isn't that a shame?

43:51 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching It is, but well, just to be blunt, I get paid for a consultation, and that's an hour of my time I could be meeting with a client that I already have a rapport with.

44:03 - Carrie Rickert Right.

44:03 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Sucks to say it, but I only have so many hours in the day.

44:07 - Carrie Rickert Sure. Sure. And, and I guarantee you are not the only therapist to feel that way, right?

44:15 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching And that's why I try and put as much info about me on my website as possible. And I'll say, if you don't like this,

44:23 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching This or that, you don't want me. Because I, you know, I don't want somebody to waste their time, set up an appointment with me and within two minutes they recognize I'm not a good fit.

44:34 - Carrie Rickert Right.

44:36 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching If they read my bio on my website, they'll know that right away. So, you know, when you start looking, really read what the therapist writes. It will help you figure out if we're a good fit.

44:50 - Carrie Rickert That's a, that's a really good clue.

44:58 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yeah. Yeah, read our bio,

44:59 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Read our little paragraph.

45:01 - Carrie Rickert Because I would think that bio tells,

45:04 - Carrie Rickert You know, that can tell you about not only your education and your experience, but also, you know, maybe a little bit of political leading,

45:15 - Carrie Rickert Maybe a little bit of,

45:17 - Carrie Rickert You know, like, your belief in the world about the world. And is that going to mesh.

45:24 - Carrie Rickert With me or not?

45:25 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching There are atheist counselors. There are people who are there for the GLBTQ community. And then there are counselors out there who are only for couples or only for families.

45:38 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching And a lot of us therapists, especially the ethical ones will put on there specifically who we work with and who we don't because we're supposed to be helpful.

45:53 - Carrie Rickert Another thing that people should, so in addition to figuring out what exactly you're looking for,

46:02 - Carrie Rickert What your goals are. Right, what your goals are, at least, you know, big picture wise, right? But also, you know, going, okay, well, I'm just one person, I don't have, a family that I want to bring into this. So family counselors aren't going to be the right people.

46:24 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Exactly. Or I don't need a couples counselor or a counselor who mostly works with kids. Or I don't, I don't have anything huge trauma. I mean, personally, I believe everybody's had trauma of some sort, but if that's not what you want to work on,

46:41 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Then don't go find a therapist who only does trauma work. Right.

46:45 - Carrie Rickert Right.

46:45 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching You know, and we'll put on our bios our areas of expertise. And if our area of expertise isn't something you're looking for, then totally don't contact me.

46:57 - Carrie Rickert Okay. So I know that you have written some books.

47:04 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I like making journal prompts because I find conversations helpful. And during COVID,

47:12 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I couldn't have those conversations one on one anymore.

47:16 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching And so I started making journal prompts for some of the clients of mine who lost their insurance or didn't feel comfortable virtually having an appointment. And so this was the way that I could at least engage with them and have them working on their mental health. So I've just taken a whole bunch of these prompts and conversations and I've put in them into these books where you can interact and write on them.

47:43 - Carrie Rickert That's awesome. So, you know, that's, that is a way for people who may not have financial accessibility.

47:52 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Mm hmm. Go on, my kindle. I think if you have a Kindle subscription, mine are free.

47:58 - Carrie Rickert Okay. Awesome. So if. If a listener of ours is interested in working with you or, and I know you just said you have a wait list,

48:11 - Carrie Rickert But also, or just learning more about you and what you offer, or even your journal prompts, right? How can they get in touch with you?

48:23 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Well, I have a website, it's called Age of Uncertainty Coaching, because this is the age of uncertainty, let me tell you. Things are happening. And on that website,

48:31 - Carrie Rickert Sure.

48:35 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching You can link to all my books on Amazon. I have some courses on Teachable.

48:42 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching I have some free courses too, that you can take for like grounding techniques, mindfulness, things like that, that can help people.

48:50 - Carrie Rickert Oh, that's awesome. Okay. Okay, cool. So if so one last question for you.

48:58 - Carrie Rickert If there was one thing that you want our listeners to take away from our conversation today, what would that be?

49:08 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching That your mental health is no different than wanting good teeth. And also one more extra thing I want to just throw in. If you won't say it out loud to another person, cause it'll hurt their feelings. Don't say it to yourself in your head.

49:27 - Carrie Rickert I love that. I love that because I think so many people talk so badly to themselves.

49:35 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching We do so much. It's so negative. So if you won't say it out loud to your friend or a pet or even a plant, you really should not be saying it to yourself.

49:50 - Carrie Rickert I think that is a really good method for determining what's appropriate and what isn't to speak to yourself with. Awesome.

49:58 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Yes. It catches people. If you start to say it and you stop yourself, you know it's no bla.

50:07 - Carrie Rickert Hu. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Erin. It has been great having this conversation with you.

50:14 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Oh, it's been fun.

50:15 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Thank you.

50:16 - Carrie Rickert I love talking about mental health care and the inaccessibility.

50:23 - Carrie Rickert It bugs the heck out of me. So having this conversation has been really fantastic.

50:30 - Carrie Rickert Thank you. And we will hopefully talk soon.

50:35 - Erin Vandermore LCMHC : Age of Uncertainty Coaching Oh, I would love that. Thank you again.